<div dir="ltr"><div>Thanks, Joy.... this is a complex situation in so many ways....<br></div>gp<br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div dir="ltr"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);display:inline!important;float:none">Ginger (Virginia) Paque</span><br style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">
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<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 12 June 2013 15:18, joy <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:joy@apc.org" target="_blank">joy@apc.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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Hi Ginger - just to answer your question on law in other countries:
yes there are quite a few with such protection - ironically
including some of those under surveillance - New Zealand has
whistleblower laws for example that include disclosures of wrong
doing by public authorities:<br>
<a href="https://www.internationalwhistleblowers.com/legislations/406/68-home-office-leaker#DLM2035939" target="_blank">https://www.internationalwhistleblowers.com/legislations/406/68-home-office-leaker#DLM2035939</a><br>
an interesting question (whch i have not had time to look at) is
whether snowden for exmaple would have been protected under NZ law
if he had made the revelations about NZ government activity in
passing on information (or the UK etc)<br>
Joy<br>
<br>
<br>
On 13/06/2013 5:06 a.m., Ginger Paque wrote:<br>
<span style="white-space:pre-wrap">> There are some statutes that
protect whistleblowers in some cases, but this is subject to
interpretation and the scope of the particular whistleblower
statute you are looking at. The lawyer I asked said it is further
complicated by 'whistleblowing' against the nation (USA) and
possible allegations of treason and terrorism (e.g. Bradley
Manning/Wikileaks)<br>
><br>
> Most whistleblower protections seem to address employee
whistleblowing or corporate fraud.<br>
><br>
> Do other countries besides the USA offer protections?<br>
><br>
> gp<br>
><br>
> Ginger (Virginia) Paque<br>
> IG Programmes, DiploFoundation<br>
><br>
> /*The latest from Diplo...*/ //Upcoming online courses in
Internet governance: Master in Contemporary Diplomacy with
Internet Governance specialisation, Critical Internet Resources
and Infrastructure, ICT Policy and Strategic Planning, and Privacy
and Personal Data Protection. //Read more and apply at
<a href="http://www.diplomacy.edu/courses//" target="_blank">http://www.diplomacy.edu/courses//</a><br>
><br>
> *//*<br>
><br>
><br>
> On 12 June 2013 11:47, Anriette Esterhuysen
<<a href="mailto:anriette@apc.org" target="_blank">anriette@apc.org</a> <a href="mailto:anriette@apc.org" target="_blank"><mailto:anriette@apc.org></a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> Replying only to BestBits... the multiple messages are
driving me round<br>
> the bend.<br>
><br>
> I support Joana on this, but understand the strategic
considerations to.<br>
><br>
> Is there any protection for whistleblowers in the US we
can make<br>
> reference to in this last paragraph? So that we can say
that 'such<br>
> protection should apply to whistleblowers in this case'?<br>
><br>
> anriette<br>
><br>
><br>
> On 12/06/2013 18:22, Joana Varon wrote:<br>
> > I'm ok if we take the paragraph that Kevin and Carol
mentioned out and<br>
> > leave the last part of the final paragraph:<br>
> ><br>
> > "We further call on the United States Congress to
protect the<br>
> > whistleblowers involved in this case and support
their efforts to combat<br>
> > these kinds of mass violations of the fundamental
human rights of American<br>
> > and foreign citizens.[9]"<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 5:13 PM, Joana Varon
<<a href="mailto:joana@varonferraz.com" target="_blank">joana@varonferraz.com</a> <a href="mailto:joana@varonferraz.com" target="_blank"><mailto:joana@varonferraz.com></a>>
wrote:<br>
> ><br>
> >> "So we need others to protect him from US.."<br>
> >><br>
> >> then, as International community, we need the US
to know we support his<br>
> >> protection, isnt it?<br>
> >><br>
> >><br>
> >> On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 5:12 PM, Carolina
Rossini <<br>
> >> <a href="mailto:carolina.rossini@gmail.com" target="_blank">carolina.rossini@gmail.com</a>
<a href="mailto:carolina.rossini@gmail.com" target="_blank"><mailto:carolina.rossini@gmail.com></a>> wrote:<br>
> >><br>
> >>> Joana, I agree with Kevin on this. We need
action of the international<br>
> >>> community to protect whistleblowers when
they break a law in a certain<br>
> >>> country when such action in favor of a
bigger common good - and actually<br>
> >>> public interest.<br>
> >>> So we need others to protect him from US...I
do not believe anything else<br>
> >>> would work in this case.<br>
> >>><br>
> >>> On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 12:07 PM, Kevin
Bankston <<a href="mailto:kbankston@cdt.org" target="_blank">kbankston@cdt.org</a>
<a href="mailto:kbankston@cdt.org" target="_blank"><mailto:kbankston@cdt.org></a>>wrote:<br>
> >>><br>
> >>>> Understood. But the audience has
changed. There it was the HRC, where<br>
> >>>> your point might have purchase. But if
we are here addressing US<br>
> >>>> policymakers, and we are, that's a
context where even those who are<br>
> >>>> staunchly on our side on the substance
have had to condemn what Snowden did<br>
> >>>> as a clear violation of the law.<br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>> ____________________________________<br>
> >>>> Kevin S. Bankston<br>
> >>>> Senior Counsel and Free Expression
Director<br>
> >>>> Center for Democracy & Technology<br>
> >>>> 1634 I St NW, Suite 1100<br>
> >>>> Washington, DC 20006<br>
> >>>> <a href="tel:202.407.8834" value="+12024078834" target="_blank">202.407.8834</a> <tel:<a href="tel:202.407.8834" value="+12024078834" target="_blank">202.407.8834</a>>
direct<br>
> >>>> <a href="tel:202.637.0968" value="+12026370968" target="_blank">202.637.0968</a> <tel:<a href="tel:202.637.0968" value="+12026370968" target="_blank">202.637.0968</a>>
fax<br>
> >>>> <a href="mailto:kbankston@cdt.org" target="_blank">kbankston@cdt.org</a>
<a href="mailto:kbankston@cdt.org" target="_blank"><mailto:kbankston@cdt.org></a><br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>> Follow CDT on Twitter at @cendemtech<br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>> On Jun 12, 2013, at 12:02 PM, Joana
Varon <<a href="mailto:joana@varonferraz.com" target="_blank">joana@varonferraz.com</a>
<a href="mailto:joana@varonferraz.com" target="_blank"><mailto:joana@varonferraz.com></a>> wrote:<br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>> As I've mentioned in the document:<br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>> I believe it is very important to
express our concerns about the future<br>
> >>>> of the whistleblowers in every single
statement we make... I mean, the guy<br>
> >>>> is in huge trouble.. all the efforts are
welcome and protecting him is also<br>
> >>>> part of our main points. That was
expressed in a paragraph on our Statement<br>
> >>>> to HRC and there were a few
organizations that signed our statement to<br>
> >>>> HCR particularly because we have
mentioned this point.<br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>> On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 4:59 PM,
Carolina Rossini <<br>
> >>>> <a href="mailto:carolina.rossini@gmail.com" target="_blank">carolina.rossini@gmail.com</a>
<a href="mailto:carolina.rossini@gmail.com" target="_blank"><mailto:carolina.rossini@gmail.com></a>> wrote:<br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>>> + 1 on Kevin's comments<br>
> >>>>><br>
> >>>>><br>
> >>>>> On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 11:58 AM,
Kevin Bankston <<a href="mailto:kbankston@cdt.org" target="_blank">kbankston@cdt.org</a>
<a href="mailto:kbankston@cdt.org" target="_blank"><mailto:kbankston@cdt.org></a>>wrote:<br>
> >>>>><br>
> >>>>>> Sorry, used the old best bits
list address, now using new one...<br>
> >>>>>><br>
> >>>>>> Kevin<br>
> >>>>>><br>
> >>>>>> On Jun 12, 2013, at 11:53 AM,
Kevin Bankston <<a href="mailto:kbankston@cdt.org" target="_blank">kbankston@cdt.org</a>
<a href="mailto:kbankston@cdt.org" target="_blank"><mailto:kbankston@cdt.org></a>><br>
> >>>>>> wrote:<br>
> >>>>>><br>
> >>>>>> I'm not sure how bestbits fell
out of this thread--I thought bestbists<br>
> >>>>>> was going to be the main channel
for this discussion--so adding that list<br>
> >>>>>> back into cc.<br>
> >>>>>><br>
> >>>>>> In addition to Carolina, I've
also made some small tweaks and one big<br>
> >>>>>> comment.<br>
> >>>>>><br>
> >>>>>> The tweaks:<br>
> >>>>>><br>
> >>>>>> 1) Changed "Some US-based
Internet companies with global reach also<br>
> >>>>>> seem to be *complicit* in these
practices" to "participating". I am<br>
> >>>>>> all for calling out "complicity"
in cases like, e.g., AT&T's cooperation<br>
> >>>>>> with the Bush-era program that
operated without court approval (for the<br>
> >>>>>> record, I'm one of the attorneys
who brought cases against AT&T and the NSA<br>
> >>>>>> over that program, while I was
at EFF). But as far as we know now the<br>
> >>>>>> companies participating
currently are doing so under secret *order* of the<br>
> >>>>>> FISA court and even if they had
attempted to challenge those orders we<br>
> >>>>>> would never know. So I'm less
willing to tar with the "complicity" brush.<br>
> >>>>>><br>
> >>>>>> 2) Changed "Involved or affected
companies *must* publish statistics"<br>
> >>>>>> to "must *be allowed to*"
publish statistics. Right now they are forbidden<br>
> >>>>>> by law from doing so. So we
should be asking USG to allow them to do so.<br>
> >>>>>><br>
> >>>>>> The one big comment, seconding
Carolina's: I think that the paragraph<br>
> >>>>>> focusing on whistleblowing is a
politically dangerous distraction from the<br>
> >>>>>> main point. We had the same
discussion in the stopwathing.uscoalition--many people wanted to
focus on Snowden--but after a lot of<br>
> >>>>>> debate it was agreed that doing
so would actually detract from what he is<br>
> >>>>>> trying to accomplish. I think
the same is true here.<br>
> >>>>>><br>
> >>>>>> Thanks,<br>
> >>>>>> K<br>
> >>>>>><br>
> >>>>>> PS CDT will have a blog post up
shortly praising the HRC statement and<br>
> >>>>>> the Larue report and
highlighting for a US audience the global human rights<br>
> >>>>>> impact of this issue.<br>
> >>>>>>
____________________________________<br>
> >>>>>> Kevin S. Bankston<br>
> >>>>>> Senior Counsel and Free
Expression Director<br>
> >>>>>> Center for Democracy &
Technology<br>
> >>>>>> 1634 I St NW, Suite 1100<br>
> >>>>>> Washington, DC 20006<br>
> >>>>>> <a href="tel:202.407.8834" value="+12024078834" target="_blank">202.407.8834</a>
<tel:<a href="tel:202.407.8834" value="+12024078834" target="_blank">202.407.8834</a>> direct<br>
> >>>>>> <a href="tel:202.637.0968" value="+12026370968" target="_blank">202.637.0968</a>
<tel:<a href="tel:202.637.0968" value="+12026370968" target="_blank">202.637.0968</a>> fax<br>
> >>>>>> <a href="mailto:kbankston@cdt.org" target="_blank">kbankston@cdt.org</a>
<a href="mailto:kbankston@cdt.org" target="_blank"><mailto:kbankston@cdt.org></a><br>
> >>>>>><br>
> >>>>>> Follow CDT on Twitter at
@cendemtech<br>
> >>>>>><br>
> >>>>>> On Jun 12, 2013, at 11:34 AM,
Carolina Rossini <<br>
> >>>>>> <a href="mailto:carolina.rossini@gmail.com" target="_blank">carolina.rossini@gmail.com</a>
<a href="mailto:carolina.rossini@gmail.com" target="_blank"><mailto:carolina.rossini@gmail.com></a>> wrote:<br>
> >>>>>><br>
> >>>>>> Hi all<br>
> >>>>>><br>
> >>>>>> I just talked to Gene, and we
have some new inputs. Edits on the<br>
> >>>>>> letter.<br>
> >>>>>><br>
> >>>>>> C<br>
> >>>>>><br>
> >>>>>><br>
> >>>>>> On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 11:16
AM, Joana Varon <<a href="mailto:joana@varonferraz.com" target="_blank">joana@varonferraz.com</a>
<a href="mailto:joana@varonferraz.com" target="_blank"><mailto:joana@varonferraz.com></a>>wrote:<br>
> >>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>> Hi folks,<br>
> >>>>>>> Great job! I'm adding some
brackets.. if I might.<br>
> >>>>>>> Shall we be delivering this
in Tunis, next week? During the Freedom<br>
> >>>>>>> Online Coalition meeting.<br>
> >>>>>>> best<br>
> >>>>>>> joana<br>
> >>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 3:44
PM, Carolina Rossini <<br>
> >>>>>>> <a href="mailto:carolina.rossini@gmail.com" target="_blank">carolina.rossini@gmail.com</a>
<a href="mailto:carolina.rossini@gmail.com" target="_blank"><mailto:carolina.rossini@gmail.com></a>> wrote:<br>
> >>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>> Kevin,<br>
> >>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>> Thank you for your
inputs. However, do you think there is space to<br>
> >>>>>>>> say - besides reforming
such law - there was a overreaching of authority ?<br>
> >>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>> C<br>
> >>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at
10:40 AM, Kevin Bankston <<a href="mailto:kbankston@cdt.org" target="_blank">kbankston@cdt.org</a>
<a href="mailto:kbankston@cdt.org" target="_blank"><mailto:kbankston@cdt.org></a>>wrote:<br>
> >>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>>> By then we might
also have responses to Andrew Puddephatt's<br>
> >>>>>>>>> questions.<br>
> >>>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>>> I'm not sure how
best to answer Andrew's questions; FISA is a<br>
> >>>>>>>>> complex law. And to
be clear, Section 215 of the PATRIOT Act was an<br>
> >>>>>>>>> amendment to FISA's
provision for court orders for records; not a separate<br>
> >>>>>>>>> law. And the state
secrets privilege is common law; there is no statute<br>
> >>>>>>>>> for it. But I'll do
my best!<br>
> >>>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>>> To read Andrew's
question as narrowly as possible so that I can<br>
> >>>>>>>>> give a quick
answer: In the context of foreign intelligence and terrorism<br>
> >>>>>>>>> investigations, FISA
regulates surveillance conducted inside the United<br>
> >>>>>>>>> States, and
acquisition of records from companies inside the United<br>
> >>>>>>>>> States, and
surveillance outside of the United States to the extent it<br>
> >>>>>>>>> implicates United
States person (i.e., citizens and naturalized permanent<br>
> >>>>>>>>> residents); there is
also the National Security Letter authority which is<br>
> >>>>>>>>> an authority for the
FBI to obtain records without going through the FISA<br>
> >>>>>>>>> Court.<br>
> >>>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>>> These authorities
directly implicate the privacy of non-Americans<br>
> >>>>>>>>> to the extent that
1) non-Americans may reside in the US, 2) non-Americans<br>
> >>>>>>>>> communications will
transit or be stored in facilities in the US, 3)<br>
> >>>>>>>>> records about
non-Americans will be stored by companies in the US.<br>
> >>>>>>>>> Finally, it also
implicates the privacy of non-Americans to the extent<br>
> >>>>>>>>> that it does not at
all regulate USG surveillance of non-Americans outside<br>
> >>>>>>>>> of America.<br>
> >>>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>>> FISA is at 18 USC
1801 et seq, in Chapter 36 of our US Code:<br>
> >>>>>>>>>
<a href="http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/50/chapter-36" target="_blank">http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/50/chapter-36</a><br>
> >>>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>>> In most relevant
part, Subchapter I deals with individual wiretaps<br>
> >>>>>>>>> ("electronic
surveillance"), II with secret physical searches, III with pen<br>
> >>>>>>>>> registers and trap
and trace devices (i.e. surveillance of metadata), IV<br>
> >>>>>>>>> with records demands
(now referred to as PATRIOT 215 orders since it was<br>
> >>>>>>>>> significantly
amended by that section of PATRIOT). Meanwhile, Subchapter<br>
> >>>>>>>>> VI--added by the
FISA Amendments Act (FAA) in 2008--provided the new and<br>
> >>>>>>>>> seriously
problematic authority to obtain year long orders authorizing<br>
> >>>>>>>>> "programs" of
non-individualized surveillance of communications where at<br>
> >>>>>>>>> least one party to
the communication is outside of the country, while also<br>
> >>>>>>>>> allowing without any
court authorization the interception of any<br>
> >>>>>>>>> foreign-to-foreign
communications transiting the US; that is the authority<br>
> >>>>>>>>> under which PRISM is
being used, as far as we best understand it.<br>
> >>>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>>> Therefore and to be
absolutely clear: amendment to these laws--and<br>
> >>>>>>>>> especially a
narrowing of the FAA--would SUBSTANTIALLY impact the privacy<br>
> >>>>>>>>> of every
non-American who uses modern communications networks and services,<br>
> >>>>>>>>> especially those
with facilities in the US. And the assistance of<br>
> >>>>>>>>> international civil
society will be critical in any effort to accomplish<br>
> >>>>>>>>> such amendments.
So--thank you all for what you've been doing!<br>
> >>>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>>> Best,<br>
> >>>>>>>>> Kevin<br>
> >>>>>>>>>
____________________________________<br>
> >>>>>>>>> Kevin S. Bankston<br>
> >>>>>>>>> Senior Counsel and
Free Expression Director<br>
> >>>>>>>>> Center for Democracy
& Technology<br>
> >>>>>>>>> 1634 I St NW, Suite
1100<br>
> >>>>>>>>> Washington, DC 20006<br>
> >>>>>>>>> <a href="tel:202.407.8834" value="+12024078834" target="_blank">202.407.8834</a>
<tel:<a href="tel:202.407.8834" value="+12024078834" target="_blank">202.407.8834</a>> direct<br>
> >>>>>>>>> <a href="tel:202.637.0968" value="+12026370968" target="_blank">202.637.0968</a>
<tel:<a href="tel:202.637.0968" value="+12026370968" target="_blank">202.637.0968</a>> fax<br>
> >>>>>>>>> <a href="mailto:kbankston@cdt.org" target="_blank">kbankston@cdt.org</a>
<a href="mailto:kbankston@cdt.org" target="_blank"><mailto:kbankston@cdt.org></a><br>
> >>>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>>> Follow CDT on
Twitter at @cendemtech<br>
> >>>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>>> On Jun 12, 2013, at
10:02 AM, Anriette Esterhuysen <<br>
> >>>>>>>>> <a href="mailto:anriette@apc.org" target="_blank">anriette@apc.org</a>
<a href="mailto:anriette@apc.org" target="_blank"><mailto:anriette@apc.org></a>> wrote:<br>
> >>>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>>> We need a clean
copy.. but I am afraid I can't work on it today.<br>
> >>>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>>> But thanks MIke and
others who have given input. I would be happy<br>
> >>>>>>>>> to let Joy and
Jeremy clean up and give us a version to send tomorrow or<br>
> >>>>>>>>> Friday.<br>
> >>>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>>> By then we might
also have responses to Andrew Puddephatt's<br>
> >>>>>>>>> questions.<br>
> >>>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>>> Anriette<br>
> >>>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>>> On 12/06/2013 15:03,
michael gurstein wrote:<br>
> >>>>>>>>>> I`ve commented
as well and also around all day...<br>
> >>>>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>>>> M<br>
> >>>>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original
Message-----<br>
> >>>>>>>>>> From:
<a href="mailto:webwewant@googlegroups.com" target="_blank">webwewant@googlegroups.com</a>
<a href="mailto:webwewant@googlegroups.com" target="_blank"><mailto:webwewant@googlegroups.com></a> [<br>
> >>>>>>>>>
<a href="mailto:webwewant@googlegroups.com" target="_blank">mailto:webwewant@googlegroups.com</a>
<a href="mailto:webwewant@googlegroups.com" target="_blank"><mailto:webwewant@googlegroups.com></a>
<<a href="mailto:webwewant@googlegroups.com" target="_blank">webwewant@googlegroups.com</a>
<a href="mailto:webwewant@googlegroups.com" target="_blank"><mailto:webwewant@googlegroups.com></a>>] On<br>
> >>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of
Anriette Esterhuysen<br>
> >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday,
June 12, 2013 4:28 AM<br>
> >>>>>>>>>> Cc:
<a href="mailto:webwewant@googlegroups.com" target="_blank">webwewant@googlegroups.com</a>
<a href="mailto:webwewant@googlegroups.com" target="_blank"><mailto:webwewant@googlegroups.com></a>;<br>
> >>>>>>>>>
<a href="mailto:irp@lists.internetrightsandprinciples.org" target="_blank">irp@lists.internetrightsandprinciples.org</a>
<a href="mailto:irp@lists.internetrightsandprinciples.org" target="_blank"><mailto:irp@lists.internetrightsandprinciples.org></a><br>
> >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re:
[bestbits] International civil society letter to<br>
> >>>>>>>>> Congress to<br>
> >>>>>>>>>> follow up from
HRC statement<br>
> >>>>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>>> Great work. Thanks
Joy and Jeremy . I have made some comments. Will<br>
> >>>>>>>>> be<br>
> >>>>>>>>> around all day if
needed.<br>
> >>>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>>> Anriette<br>
> >>>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>>> On 12/06/2013 06:01,
Jeremy Malcolm wrote:<br>
> >>>>>>>>>> This follows on
from a telephone call organised by the Web<br>
> >>>>>>>>> Foundation<br>
> >>>>>>>>>> yesterday, in
which APC was asked to coordinate a civil society<br>
> >>>>>>>>> letter<br>
> >>>>>>>>>> to the US
government from international organisations. That<br>
> >>>>>>>>> letter<br>
> >>>>>>>>>> would follow on
from our joint statement to the Human Rights<br>
> >>>>>>>>> Council,<br>
> >>>>>>>>>> and we would
invite Human Rights Watch and Privacy International<br>
> >>>>>>>>> to<br>
> >>>>>>>>>> participate in
drafting. APC agreed to do this and suggested<br>
> >>>>>>>>>> continuing to
use Best Bits as the coordinating coalition.<br>
> >>>>>>>>>> Here is the
first rough draft of the text that Joy from APC and I<br>
> >>>>>>>>> have<br>
> >>>>>>>>>> begun to put
together, which awaits your comments and<br>
> >>>>>>>>> improvements:<br>
> >>>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>>>>
<a href="http://igcaucus.org:9001/p/your_name_here" target="_blank">http://igcaucus.org:9001/p/your_name_here</a> (sorry for the dumb<br>
> >>>>>>>>> URL)<br>
> >>>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>>>> Although I'm
cc'ing the IRP and Web We Want lists, to avoid<br>
> >>>>>>>>>> fragmentation of
discussions on the text like happened<br>
> >>>>>>>>> inadvertently<br>
> >>>>>>>>>> last time, can I
suggest, if nobody objects, that we centralise on<br>
> >>>>>>>>>> this list, and
that if you are not a member you can join at<br>
> >>>>>>>>>>
<a href="http://lists.bestbits.net/wws/info/bestbits" target="_blank">http://lists.bestbits.net/wws/info/bestbits</a>. To bring in<br>
> >>>>>>>>> others, you<br>
> >>>>>>>>>> can point them
towards this list too.<br>
> >>>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>>> ><br>
> >>>>>>>>>> --<br>
> >>>>>>>>>> You received
this message because you are subscribed to the<br>
> >>>>>>>>> Google Groups<br>
> >>>>>>>>>> "Web We Want
working group" group.<br>
> >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe
from this group and stop receiving emails from it,<br>
> >>>>>>>>> send an<br>
> >>>>>>>>>> email to
<a href="mailto:webwewant+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com" target="_blank">webwewant+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com</a>
<a href="mailto:webwewant%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com" target="_blank"><mailto:webwewant%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com></a>.<br>
> >>>>>>>>>> For more
options, visit <a href="https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out" target="_blank">https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out</a>.<br>
> >>>>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>>> --<br>
> >>>>>>>>>
------------------------------------------------------<br>
> >>>>>>>>> anriette esterhuysen
<a href="mailto:anriette@apc.org" target="_blank">anriette@apc.org</a> <a href="mailto:anriette@apc.org" target="_blank"><mailto:anriette@apc.org></a><br>
> >>>>>>>>> executive director,
association for progressive communications<br>
> >>>>>>>>> <a href="http://www.apc.org" target="_blank">www.apc.org</a>
<a href="http://www.apc.org" target="_blank"><http://www.apc.org></a><br>
> >>>>>>>>> po box 29755,
melville 2109<br>
> >>>>>>>>> south africa<br>
> >>>>>>>>> tel/fax +27 11 726
1692 <tel:%2B27%2011%20726%201692><br>
> >>>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>>> --<br>
> >>>>>>>>> You received this
message because you are subscribed to the Google<br>
> >>>>>>>>> Groups "Web We Want
working group" group.<br>
> >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from
this group and stop receiving emails from it,<br>
> >>>>>>>>> send an email to
<a href="mailto:webwewant+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com" target="_blank">webwewant+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com</a>
<a href="mailto:webwewant%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com" target="_blank"><mailto:webwewant%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com></a>.<br>
> >>>>>>>>> For more options,
visit <a href="https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out" target="_blank">https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out</a>.<br>
> >>>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>>> --<br>
> >>>>>>>>> You received this
message because you are subscribed to the Google<br>
> >>>>>>>>> Groups "Web We Want
working group" group.<br>
> >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from
this group and stop receiving emails from it,<br>
> >>>>>>>>> send an email to
<a href="mailto:webwewant+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com" target="_blank">webwewant+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com</a>
<a href="mailto:webwewant%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com" target="_blank"><mailto:webwewant%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com></a>.<br>
> >>>>>>>>> For more options,
visit <a href="https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out" target="_blank">https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out</a>.<br>
> >>>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>> --<br>
> >>>>>>>> *Carolina Rossini*<br>
> >>>>>>>>
<a href="http://carolinarossini.net/" target="_blank">http://carolinarossini.net/</a><br>
> >>>>>>>> + 1 6176979389
<tel:%2B%201%206176979389><br>
> >>>>>>>>
*<a href="mailto:carolina.rossini@gmail.com" target="_blank">carolina.rossini@gmail.com</a>
<a href="mailto:carolina.rossini@gmail.com" target="_blank"><mailto:carolina.rossini@gmail.com></a>*<br>
> >>>>>>>> skype: carolrossini<br>
> >>>>>>>> @carolinarossini<br>
> >>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>> --<br>
> >>>>>>>> You received this
message because you are subscribed to the Google<br>
> >>>>>>>> Groups "Web We Want
working group" group.<br>
> >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this
group and stop receiving emails from it,<br>
> >>>>>>>> send an email to
<a href="mailto:webwewant+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com" target="_blank">webwewant+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com</a>
<a href="mailto:webwewant%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com" target="_blank"><mailto:webwewant%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com></a>.<br>
> >>>>>>>> For more options, visit
<a href="https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out" target="_blank">https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out</a>.<br>
> >>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>> --<br>
> >>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>> --<br>
> >>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>> Joana Varon Ferraz<br>
> >>>>>>> Centro de Tecnologia e
Sociedade (CTS-FGV)<a href="http://direitorio.fgv.br/cts/" target="_blank"><http://direitorio.fgv.br/cts/></a><br>
> >>>>>>> @joana_varon<br>
> >>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>><br>
> >>>>>><br>
> >>>>>> --<br>
> >>>>>> *Carolina Rossini*<br>
> >>>>>> <a href="http://carolinarossini.net/" target="_blank">http://carolinarossini.net/</a><br>
> >>>>>> + 1 6176979389
<tel:%2B%201%206176979389><br>
> >>>>>> *<a href="mailto:carolina.rossini@gmail.com" target="_blank">carolina.rossini@gmail.com</a>
<a href="mailto:carolina.rossini@gmail.com" target="_blank"><mailto:carolina.rossini@gmail.com></a>*<br>
> >>>>>> skype: carolrossini<br>
> >>>>>> @carolinarossini<br>
> >>>>>><br>
> >>>>>><br>
> >>>>>><br>
> >>>>>><br>
> >>>>><br>
> >>>>> --<br>
> >>>>> *Carolina Rossini*<br>
> >>>>> <a href="http://carolinarossini.net/" target="_blank">http://carolinarossini.net/</a><br>
> >>>>> + 1 6176979389
<tel:%2B%201%206176979389><br>
> >>>>> *<a href="mailto:carolina.rossini@gmail.com" target="_blank">carolina.rossini@gmail.com</a>
<a href="mailto:carolina.rossini@gmail.com" target="_blank"><mailto:carolina.rossini@gmail.com></a>*<br>
> >>>>> skype: carolrossini<br>
> >>>>> @carolinarossini<br>
> >>>>><br>
> >>>>><br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>> --<br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>> --<br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>> Joana Varon Ferraz<br>
> >>>> Centro de Tecnologia e Sociedade
(CTS-FGV)<a href="http://direitorio.fgv.br/cts/" target="_blank"><http://direitorio.fgv.br/cts/></a><br>
> >>>> @joana_varon<br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>><br>
> >>><br>
> >>> --<br>
> >>> *Carolina Rossini*<br>
> >>> <a href="http://carolinarossini.net/" target="_blank">http://carolinarossini.net/</a><br>
> >>> + 1 6176979389
<tel:%2B%201%206176979389><br>
> >>> *<a href="mailto:carolina.rossini@gmail.com" target="_blank">carolina.rossini@gmail.com</a>
<a href="mailto:carolina.rossini@gmail.com" target="_blank"><mailto:carolina.rossini@gmail.com></a>*<br>
> >>> skype: carolrossini<br>
> >>> @carolinarossini<br>
> >>><br>
> >>><br>
> >><br>
> >> --<br>
> >><br>
> >> --<br>
> >><br>
> >> Joana Varon Ferraz<br>
> >> Centro de Tecnologia e Sociedade (CTS-FGV)
<a href="http://direitorio.fgv.br/cts/" target="_blank"><http://direitorio.fgv.br/cts/></a><br>
> >> @joana_varon<br>
> >><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
><br>
> --<br>
> ------------------------------------------------------<br>
> anriette esterhuysen <a href="mailto:anriette@apc.org" target="_blank">anriette@apc.org</a>
<a href="mailto:anriette@apc.org" target="_blank"><mailto:anriette@apc.org></a><br>
> executive director, association for progressive
communications<br>
> <a href="http://www.apc.org" target="_blank">www.apc.org</a> <a href="http://www.apc.org" target="_blank"><http://www.apc.org></a><br>
> po box 29755, melville 2109<br>
> south africa<br>
> tel/fax +27 11 726 1692
<tel:%2B27%2011%20726%201692><br>
><br>
></span><br>
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