<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>This thread was sent to the old list address. Forwarding it to the new one.<br></div><div><br>Begin forwarded message:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><b>From:</b> "Carlos A. Afonso" <<a href="mailto:ca@cafonso.ca">ca@cafonso.ca</a>><br><b>Date:</b> 23 May, 2013 12:16:19 AM GMT+08:00<br><b>To:</b> Marianne Franklin <<a href="mailto:m.i.franklin@gold.ac.uk">m.i.franklin@gold.ac.uk</a>><br><b>Cc:</b> parminder <<a href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net">parminder@itforchange.net</a>>, "<a href="mailto:irp@lists.internetrightsandprinciples.org">irp@lists.internetrightsandprinciples.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:irp@lists.internetrightsandprinciples.org">irp@lists.internetrightsandprinciples.org</a>>, "<a href="mailto:bestbits@lists.igcaucus.org">bestbits@lists.igcaucus.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:bestbits@lists.igcaucus.org">bestbits@lists.igcaucus.org</a>><br><b>Subject:</b> <b>Re: [IRPCoalition] [bestbits] Reminder: please endorse IGF proposal today if you agree</b><br><br></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div><span>Marianne, Nupef has decided to sign with a view quite similar to yours.</span><br><span></span><br><span>If we expect to build a consensus treatise, this will never happen. It is a process, and we see this statement as part of a process that will certainly improve/change/refine it.</span><br><span></span><br><span>Ritght now, we feel it is politically important to sign it.</span><br><span></span><br><span>fraternal regards</span><br><span></span><br><span>--c.a.</span><br><span></span><br><span>On 05/22/2013 06:22 AM, Marianne Franklin wrote:</span><br><blockquote type="cite"><span>Dear Parminder</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Thank you for this invaluable other point of view. I think the points</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>below need some discussion on this list as the discussion on the Best</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Bits list was curtailed due to time pressures. The question before us is</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>whether enough people feel this statement warrants our support in</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>principle, and whether the current wording and framing of the statement</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>is good enough to sign up to.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>As this coalition does more than sign up to petitions and statements</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>alone it is perhaps a good moment to consider whether this one is ‘ fit</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>for purpose’. I lend my support to it because it is good enough for now.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Not good enough in the long term but for now. This of course is a very</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>pragmatic point of view so I for one am interested in hearing more about</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>whether the IRP Coalition should not sign.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>The current Best Bits statement is now in the public domain so we can</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>sign up or not. That said, whatever we decide right now, it might be</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>productive for us to think about alternative wordings and phrasing that</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>can respond to the objections in 1) and 2) below for the longer term.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>At this stage too it occurred to me that as a coalition we might want to</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>consider what constitutes a quorum for any consensual decision-making.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Numbers are not enough alone but establishing a threshold is an element</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>in these processes; e.g. 10% responses would be at present 31 members</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>and so on.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Looking forward to hearing more voices.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Best</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>MF</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>*From:*<a href="mailto:irp-bounces@lists.internetrightsandprinciples.org">irp-bounces@lists.internetrightsandprinciples.org</a></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>[<a href="mailto:irp-bounces@lists.internetrightsandprinciples.org">mailto:irp-bounces@lists.internetrightsandprinciples.org</a>] *On Behalf Of</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>*parminder</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>*Sent:* 22 May 2013 05:11</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>*To:* <a href="mailto:irp@lists.internetrightsandprinciples.org">irp@lists.internetrightsandprinciples.org</a>; <a href="mailto:bestbits@lists.igcaucus.org">bestbits@lists.igcaucus.org</a></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>*Subject:* Re: [IRPCoalition] [bestbits] Reminder: please endorse IGF</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>proposal today if you agree</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Dear All</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>As discussed elsewhere, I continue to be unclear whether this is a</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>proposal for urgent and high priority discussion of a particular subject</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>- gov role in global IG, or a proposal for testing a process for the IGF</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>to produce more concrete outcomes.... The response to my queries on this</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>count has not at all been clear.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>I am independently very interested both in,</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>(1) Exploring the role of all stakeholders, including governments, in</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>global IG. However in the context of the recent statment by some civil</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>society organisations at the end of WTPF, I had asked for clarification</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>on what exactly is meant by equal role/ participation of all</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>stakeholders. I got no response. While i fully accept the legitimacy of</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>some civil society organisations getting together and issuing</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>statements that they agree on, due to time related exigencies or</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>otherwise, even when they are aprt of wider networks, what I do not find</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>legitimate is not even providing clarifications about text of the</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>statement post facto to members of those networks.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>and</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>(2) exploring how IGF can be more effective, and produce more concrete</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>outcomes (we, as in my organisation, did a lot in this regard at the WG</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>on IGF improvements against a lot of resistance - active or passive -</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>from some other civil society participants, which I am still to fully</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>understand). However this is a larger - much larger - subject - which</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>should be deliberated in CS lists and a considered specific proposal</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>should be made. Such a proposal cannot be pushed through a back-door of</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>what looks like a completely different proposal about taking up a</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>particular subject for discussion at the IGF.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>For these reasons, we cant sign it, and propose that BestBits and IRP</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>coalition do not sign it either..</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>parminder</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>On Tuesday 21 May 2013 10:58 PM, Grace Mutung'u (Bomu) wrote:</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span> i agree!</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span> 2013/5/21, Brown, Abbe<<a href="mailto:abbe.brown@abdn.ac.uk">abbe.brown@abdn.ac.uk</a>> <<a href="mailto:abbe.brown@abdn.ac.uk">mailto:abbe.brown@abdn.ac.uk</a>>:</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span> I think yes</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span> Abbe</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span> -----Original Message-----</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span> From:irp-<a href="mailto:bounces@lists.internetrightsandprinciples.org">bounces@lists.internetrightsandprinciples.org</a> <<a href="mailto:irp-bounces@lists.internetrightsandprinciples.org">mailto:irp-bounces@lists.internetrightsandprinciples.org</a>></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span> [<a href="mailto:irp-bounces@lists.internetrightsandprinciples.org">mailto:irp-bounces@lists.internetrightsandprinciples.org</a>] On Behalf Of</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span> Marianne Franklin</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span> Sent: 21 May 2013 10:29</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span> To: Jeremy Malcolm;<a href="mailto:irp@lists.internetrightsandprinciples.org">irp@lists.internetrightsandprinciples.org</a> <<a href="mailto:irp@lists.internetrightsandprinciples.org">mailto:irp@lists.internetrightsandprinciples.org</a>></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span> Subject: Re: [IRPCoalition] [bestbits] Reminder: please endorse IGF proposal</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span> today if you agree</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span> Thanks very much Jeremy</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span> Dear IRP'ers. Please access the link and let us know if the IRP Coalition</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span> should sign up to this. There has been some intense and thorough discussion</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span> on the Best Bits list about wording and the drafting process itself:</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span> discussions which this list are accustomed to.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span> <a href="http://bestbits.net/igf-opinions/">http://bestbits.net/igf-opinions/</a></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span> Please let us know asap I.e. today!</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span> Cheers</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span> MF</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span> -----Original Message-----</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span> From:irp-<a href="mailto:bounces@lists.internetrightsandprinciples.org">bounces@lists.internetrightsandprinciples.org</a> <<a href="mailto:irp-bounces@lists.internetrightsandprinciples.org">mailto:irp-bounces@lists.internetrightsandprinciples.org</a>></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span> [<a href="mailto:irp-bounces@lists.internetrightsandprinciples.org">mailto:irp-bounces@lists.internetrightsandprinciples.org</a>] On Behalf Of</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span> Jeremy Malcolm</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span> Sent: 21 May 2013 10:21</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span> To:irp@<a href="http://lists.internetrightsandprinciples.org">lists.internetrightsandprinciples.org</a> <<a href="mailto:irp@lists.internetrightsandprinciples.org">mailto:irp@lists.internetrightsandprinciples.org</a>></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span> Subject: Re: [IRPCoalition] [bestbits] Reminder: please endorse IGF proposal</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span> today if you agree</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span> On 21/05/13 16:59, Marianne Franklin wrote:</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span> Dear Jeremy</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span> Could you resend the link/document please and through to the IRP list</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span> as I see that time is short. For some reason I can't access the</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span> statement to forward or read.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span> <a href="http://bestbits.net/igf-opinions">http://bestbits.net/igf-opinions</a></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span> --</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span> Jeremy Malcolm PhD LLB (Hons) B Com</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span> Internet and Open Source lawyer, consumer advocate, geek host -t NAPTR</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span> 5.9.8.5.2.8.2.2.1.0.6.<a href="http://e164.org">e164.org</a>|awk -F! '{print $3}'</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span> _______________________________________________</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span> IRP mailing list</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span> <a href="mailto:IRP@lists.internetrightsandprinciples.org">IRP@lists.internetrightsandprinciples.org</a> <<a href="mailto:IRP@lists.internetrightsandprinciples.org">mailto:IRP@lists.internetrightsandprinciples.org</a>></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span> <a href="http://lists.internetrightsandprinciples.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/irp">http://lists.internetrightsandprinciples.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/irp</a></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span> The University of Aberdeen is a charity registered in Scotland, No</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span> SC013683.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span> _______________________________________________</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span> IRP mailing list</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span> <a href="mailto:IRP@lists.internetrightsandprinciples.org">IRP@lists.internetrightsandprinciples.org</a> <<a href="mailto:IRP@lists.internetrightsandprinciples.org">mailto:IRP@lists.internetrightsandprinciples.org</a>></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span> <a href="http://lists.internetrightsandprinciples.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/irp">http://lists.internetrightsandprinciples.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/irp</a></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>_______________________________________________</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>IRP mailing list</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:IRP@lists.internetrightsandprinciples.org">IRP@lists.internetrightsandprinciples.org</a></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="http://lists.internetrightsandprinciples.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/irp">http://lists.internetrightsandprinciples.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/irp</a></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><span></span><br></div></blockquote></body></html>