<html>
  <head>

    <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
  </head>
  <body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
    <br>
    <div class="moz-forward-container">
      <meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
      <br>
      <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On Saturday 13 April 2013 09:05 AM,
        Ian Peter wrote:<br>
      </div>
      <blockquote cite="mid:EE796AE9A5FF43279790844911092B2F@Toshiba"
        type="cite">
        <meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8"
          http-equiv="Content-Type">
        <div dir="ltr">
          <div style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE:
            12pt">
            <div>yes, the concept of no government involvement is
              nonsense. The Public Knowledge response (or draft
              response, it may have changed) included the following. Not
              that I entirely agree with it, but it makes some relevant
              points about the language.</div>
            <div> </div>
            <div>“ we fear that the broad language of the proposed bill
              may</div>
            <div>intrude on areas of consumer protection, competition
              policy, law enforcement and</div>
            <div>cybersecurity long considered appropriate for national
              policy formulated by governments</div>
            <div>with input from civil society, business and the
              technical community.</div>
          </div>
        </div>
      </blockquote>
      <br>
      The 'Public Knowledge' statement is also very clear on respective
      roles of different groups or stakeholders vis a vis the public
      policy role of governments. This is the single most contentious
      issue in global IG today..... A good rejoinder to all those 'all
      stakeholders are equal in public policy making processes' kind of
      dangerous anti-democracy statements, that this elist/group
      (meaning Internet Gov Caucus where the message was first posted) 
      also seem to be rife with. 'Public Knowledge' takes a clear and
      strong position against such a formulation. IT for Change has
      since long warned that playing with democratic principles at the
      global level can have extremely dangerous consequences for
      national and local level democracy practices and principles. <br>
      <br>
      what are basic democratic principles for local and national levels
      remain unchanged for global levels. We all know that facts as well
      possibilities at each level are different, and these have to be
      worked with, however, without breaching larger democratic
      principles (which are repeated sought to be breached in the name
      of MSism).... UN based multilateral systems are far from perfect
      (but so are are our national systems in different ways). But then
      the processes at multilateral levels are also different - for
      instance need for consensus for most processes, and the fact that
      almost always anything agreed to internationally becomes effective
      only when ratified, and that there are almost zero coercive
      implementation mechanisms in the hands of multilateral systems
      (expect for some of the kind which US routinely usurps, but that
      is a different matter). Still, the democratic practices at global
      levels should be further improved - with all kinds of new
      participative, transparency, accountability etc methods..... Which
      however is very different from using the pretext of 'democracy
      deficit' to institutionalise practices and institutions that are
      'in principle' anit-democratic, like seeking that a corporation
      should have a similar voting power as a government in
      international policy making settings.<br>
      <br>
      parminder <br>
      <br>
      <br>
      <blockquote cite="mid:EE796AE9A5FF43279790844911092B2F@Toshiba"
        type="cite">
        <div dir="ltr">
          <div style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE:
            12pt">
            <div> For example, the</div>
            <div>United States has by law protected the privacy of
              children online through Child Online</div>
            <div>Privacy Protection Act (COPPA) for nearly 15 years.
              Although we opposed the ITU</div>
            <div>resolution to require countries to limit spam, the
              United States protects its citizens from</div>
            <div>spam through the CAN-SPAM Act. The Federal Trade
              Commission (FTC), the Federal</div>
            <div>Communications Commission (FCC), the Department of
              Justice and numerous other</div>
            <div>federal and state agencies have long played a critical
              role in protecting consumers and</div>
            <div>promoting competition and their existing statutes.</div>
            <div>We fear that if this bill becomes law, rather than
              being understood as simply a resolution</div>
            <div>directed specifically against the efforts to expand the
              jurisdiction of the ITU, these</div>
            <div>important and long-standing government policies will be
              undermined. Our opposition to</div>
            <div>ceding authority to the ITU to decide how to balance
              consumer protection and free</div>
            <div>expression is not because we see no role for government
              in protecting consumers or</div>
            <div>promoting competition. Rather, we believe those matters
              are best decided here at home,</div>
            <div>by a Congress accountable to the people and enforced by
              a government constrained by</div>
            <div>the Constitution. Similarly, many who oppose addressing
              cybersecurity or law</div>
            <div>enforcement issues at the ITU regard it as entirely
              appropriate for Congress or other</div>
            <div>federal agencies to address these concerns, subject to
              the Constitutional limitations of due</div>
            <div>process and free expression.”</div>
            <div> </div>
            <div>Certainly a number of US groups have opposed the
              language for this and similar reasons.</div>
            <div style="FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline;
              FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: small;
              FONT-WEIGHT: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none">
              <div style="FONT: 10pt tahoma">
                <div> </div>
                <div style="BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
                  <div style="font-color: black"><b>From:</b> <a
                      moz-do-not-send="true" title="jeremy@ciroap.org"
                      href="mailto:jeremy@ciroap.org">Jeremy Malcolm</a>
                  </div>
                  <div><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, April 13, 2013 12:56 PM</div>
                  <div><b>To:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                      title="governance@lists.igcaucus.org"
                      href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a>
                  </div>
                  <div><b>Subject:</b> [governance] US House Bill to
                    Affirm the Policy of the United States Regarding
                    Internet Governance</div>
                </div>
              </div>
              <div> </div>
            </div>
            <div style="FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline;
              FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: small;
              FONT-WEIGHT: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none">
              <div>It doesn't seem to have been mentioned here yet (or
                maybe only in passing) that there is a bill on Internet
                governance being debated in the Energy & Commerce
                Committee of the US House of Representatives at the
                moment.  There will doubtless be stampede of uncritical
                support for it from politicians of all sides (there is
                no hidden intellectual property "gotcha"), but
                unfortunately its premises are fundamentally flawed.</div>
              <div> </div>
              <div><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://energycommerce.house.gov/markup/markup-bill-affirm-policy-united-states-regarding-internet-governance">http://energycommerce.house.gov/markup/markup-bill-affirm-policy-united-states-regarding-internet-governance</a></div>
              <div> </div>
              <div>It only has two sections: one on "Findings" and one
                on "Policy regarding Internet governance", which flows
                from the findings.  The latter simply states:</div>
              <div> </div>
              <div>"It is the policy of the United States to promote a
                global Internet free from government control and to
                preserve and advance the successful multistakeholder
                model that governs the Internet."</div>
              <div> </div>
              <div>So this is obviously nonsense; it is not US policy to
                promote a global Internet free from government control,
                only free from the control of other governments besides
                itself.  And note that US policy is only to "preserve
                and advance" not to "enhance" the multistakeholder
                model, which continues the fiction that the
                multistakeholder institutions that we have now are
                adequate both in their inclusiveness and in the breadth
                of Internet governance topics that they cover.</div>
              <div> </div>
              <div>Of course, you can argue for more beneficial
                interpretations by defining "control" and
                "multistakeholder model" expansively, but even so this
                bill is just going to entrench the standoff between the
                US and other countries, which is not going to be helpful
                in reaching compromise on the evolution of Internet
                governance arrangements this year...</div>
              <div>
                <div> </div>
                <div>
                  <div style="WIDOWS: 2; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none;
                    TEXT-INDENT: 0px; LETTER-SPACING: normal; FONT:
                    medium helvetica; WORD-WRAP: break-word;
                    WHITE-SPACE: normal; ORPHANS: 2; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0);
                    WORD-SPACING: 0px; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
                    -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;
                    -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;
                    -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px"><span
                      style="BORDER-SPACING: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE:
                      separate" class="Apple-style-span">
                      <div style="WORD-WRAP: break-word;
                        -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break:
                        after-white-space"><span style="WIDOWS: 2;
                          TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px;
                          BORDER-SPACING: 0px; LETTER-SPACING: normal;
                          BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: medium
                          helvetica; WHITE-SPACE: normal; ORPHANS: 2;
                          COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); WORD-SPACING: 0px;
                          -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;
                          -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
                          -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none"
                          class="Apple-style-span">
                          <div style="WORD-WRAP: break-word;
                            -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
                            -webkit-line-break: after-white-space"><span
                              style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; WIDOWS: 2;
                              TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; FONT-VARIANT:
                              normal; FONT-STYLE: normal; TEXT-INDENT:
                              0px; BORDER-SPACING: 0px; LETTER-SPACING:
                              normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate;
                              FONT-FAMILY: helvetica; WHITE-SPACE:
                              normal; ORPHANS: 2; FONT-WEIGHT: normal;
                              WORD-SPACING: 0px;
                              -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;
                              -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
                              -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none"
                              class="Apple-style-span">
                              <div style="WORD-WRAP: break-word;
                                -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
                                -webkit-line-break: after-white-space"><span
                                  style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; WIDOWS: 2;
                                  TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; FONT-VARIANT:
                                  normal; FONT-STYLE: normal;
                                  TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-SPACING: 0px;
                                  LETTER-SPACING: normal;
                                  BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate;
                                  FONT-FAMILY: helvetica; WHITE-SPACE:
                                  normal; ORPHANS: 2; FONT-WEIGHT:
                                  normal; WORD-SPACING: 0px;
                                  -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;
                                  -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
                                  -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect:
                                  none" class="Apple-style-span">
                                  <div style="WORD-WRAP: break-word;
                                    -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
                                    -webkit-line-break:
                                    after-white-space"><span
                                      style="WIDOWS: 2; TEXT-TRANSFORM:
                                      none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px;
                                      BORDER-SPACING: 0px;
                                      LETTER-SPACING: normal;
                                      BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT:
                                      medium helvetica; WHITE-SPACE:
                                      normal; ORPHANS: 2; COLOR:
                                      rgb(0,0,0); WORD-SPACING: 0px;
                                      -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;
                                      -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
                                      -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect:
                                      none" class="Apple-style-span">
                                      <div style="WORD-WRAP: break-word;
                                        -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
                                        -webkit-line-break:
                                        after-white-space"><span
                                          style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal;
                                          WIDOWS: 2; TEXT-TRANSFORM:
                                          none; FONT-VARIANT: normal;
                                          FONT-STYLE: normal;
                                          TEXT-INDENT: 0px;
                                          BORDER-SPACING: 0px;
                                          LETTER-SPACING: normal;
                                          BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate;
                                          FONT-FAMILY: helvetica;
                                          WHITE-SPACE: normal; ORPHANS:
                                          2; FONT-WEIGHT: normal;
                                          WORD-SPACING: 0px;
                                          -webkit-text-size-adjust:
                                          auto;
                                          -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                                          0px;
                                          -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect:
                                          none" class="Apple-style-span">
                                          <div style="WORD-WRAP:
                                            break-word;
                                            -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
                                            -webkit-line-break:
                                            after-white-space"><span
                                              style="BACKGROUND-COLOR:
                                              rgb(255,255,255)">-- </span><br
                                              style="BACKGROUND-COLOR:
                                              rgb(255,255,255)">
                                            <p style="BACKGROUND-COLOR:
                                              rgb(255,255,255);
                                              FONT-SIZE: 9pt"><b>Dr
                                                Jeremy Malcolm<br>
                                                Senior Policy Officer<br>
                                                Consumers International
                                                | the global campaigning
                                                voice for consumers</b><br>
                                              Office for Asia-Pacific
                                              and the Middle East<br>
                                              Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan
                                              Abang Haji Openg, TTDI,
                                              60000 Kuala Lumpur,
                                              Malaysia<br>
                                              Tel: +60 3 7726 1599</p>
                                            <p style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt">WCRD

                                              2013 – Consumer Justice
                                              Now! | Consumer Protection
                                              Map: <a
                                                moz-do-not-send="true"
                                                href="https://wcrd2013.crowdmap.com/main">https://wcrd2013.crowdmap.com/main</a>
                                              | #wcrd2013</p>
                                            <p style="BACKGROUND-COLOR:
                                              rgb(255,255,255);
                                              FONT-SIZE: 9pt">@Consumers_Int
                                              | <a
                                                moz-do-not-send="true"
                                                href="http://www.consumersinternational.org/">www.consumersinternational.org</a>
                                              | <a
                                                moz-do-not-send="true"
                                                href="http://www.facebook.com/consumersinternational">www.facebook.com/consumersinternational</a></p>
                                            <p style="BACKGROUND-COLOR:
                                              rgb(255,255,255); COLOR:
                                              rgb(153,153,153);
                                              FONT-SIZE: 8pt">Read our <a
                                                moz-do-not-send="true"
                                                href="http://www.consumersinternational.org/email-confidentiality"
                                                target="_blank">email
                                                confidentiality notice</a>.
                                              Don't print this email
                                              unless necessary.</p>
                                          </div>
                                        </span></div>
                                    </span></div>
                                </span></div>
                            </span></div>
                        </span></div>
                    </span></div>
                </div>
                <div> </div>
              </div>
              <p> </p>
              <hr>
              ____________________________________________________________<br>
              You received this message as a subscriber on the list:<br>
                   <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
                href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a><br>
              To be removed from the list, visit:<br>
                   <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
                href="http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing">http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing</a><br>
              <br>
              For all other list information and functions, see:<br>
                   <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
                href="http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance">http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance</a><br>
              To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:<br>
                   <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
                href="http://www.igcaucus.org/">http://www.igcaucus.org/</a><br>
              <br>
              Translate this email: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
                href="http://translate.google.com/translate_t">http://translate.google.com/translate_t</a><br>
            </div>
          </div>
        </div>
      </blockquote>
      <br>
      <br>
    </div>
    <br>
  </body>
</html>