[governance] RE: [bestbits] Rousseff & Chehade: Brazil will host world event on Internet governance in 2014

parminder parminder at itforchange.net
Fri Oct 11 02:07:18 EDT 2013


It is here

http://igcaucus.org:9001/p/Brazil2014

Just a word of caution - we dont want to make this an ominbus document 
of demands. At this stage we need a clear, crisp and strong letter, of a 
few sentences, that Brazilian President or some top guy would actually 
read, and not get confusing messages. I am not saying we should not say 
whatever we definitively want to say - but be clear and short, that is all.

parminder


On Friday 11 October 2013 11:15 AM, Rafik Dammak wrote:
> Hi Parminder,
>
> sorry I am not really getting the proposal you are developing here? 
> can you please clarify?
>
>
> Rafik
>
>
> 2013/10/11 parminder <parminder at itforchange.net 
> <mailto:parminder at itforchange.net>>
>
>
>     Since as argued below, in our judgement, time is strategically of
>     essense, some of us would keep working on a posible text over
>     today and try to present something to IGC and BB by the end of the
>     day.... We do very much hope IGC and BB can sign on it by
>     consensus, but it doesnt happen we would open it to organisations
>     and people who want to sign it (sorry, this is a practice I
>     normally do not like so much, but I dont think it is ok that we
>     can produce a statement to critique a UN process is just no time,
>     with all kind of ambiguous languages, and on such an important -
>     potential game changer - initiative  from a developing country, a
>     paralysis seems to be setting in)...
>
>     parminder
>
>
>     On Friday 11 October 2013 11:02 AM, parminder wrote:
>>     Well let then that be as it has to be... "There is /a tide/ in
>>     the /affairs of men/. Which, taken at the flood, leads on to
>>     fortune"...
>>
>>     Leadership doesnt come searching for you, you have to seize
>>     it.... President Rousseff was made, what would have perhaps been,
>>     somewhat a regular kind of offer. She seized it with both her
>>     hands, even announced the like month etc.. That is what gave it
>>     such a sudden high prominence, and people are celebrating
>>     Rousseff, and somewhere, if it plays its cards well, Brazil have
>>     now got an edge.... which it can use to further its interest...
>>
>>     Civil society also is supposed to be representing some interests
>>     - real interests of real people, who are most marginalised, and
>>     we have to take our own responsibility seriously . We cannot be
>>     eternally paralysed, which hurts these interests. If there are
>>     real differences of views, well, that counts.... But a permanent
>>     simple wait-and-watch attitude would do us no good...
>>
>>     Lets analyse what we have here.... Or what risks we run and what
>>     gains we can make...  And others must also contribute what they
>>     think are risks or advantages.... merely saying we are not sure
>>     yet, tells talk more, do face to face and all,,,, Such stuff I
>>     think, just my own view, is not the appropriate response.
>>
>>     ICANN, either on its own or tech community's behalf tries to cosy
>>     up to the Brazilians (perhaps in anticipation of the new proposal
>>     for democratising global IG that Rousseff said Brazil will soon
>>     present - BTW, the day of the annual discussion on WSIS and IG
>>     issues in the UN GA is 22nd Oct, but whatever...) . It proposes a
>>     real dialogue to see what needs to be changed about the global
>>     governance of the Internet. Rousseff immediately seizes the
>>     initiative, and even declares a possible timeline, just like
>>     that, off-hand.... That is leadership material. That is all that
>>     has happened, and that is all anyone knows has happened. There is
>>     nothing hidden that civil society may suddenly become complicit
>>     to if they support this proposal.
>>
>>     In supporting it, we would only be saying -
>>     (1) yes, we agree that 'a real dialogue' on what needs to change
>>     in global governance of the Internet should take place with some
>>     urgency,
>>     (2) such a dialogue should take place in an open and not  a
>>     hidden manner,
>>     (3) it is certainly encouraging that the initiative comes from
>>     one of the key developing nations - the main votaries of a 'real
>>     change' - and ICANN or the technical community - seen as the main
>>     symbol and defender of status quo,and that
>>     (4) we want civil society to be equally there in the middle of
>>     all action, as the dialogue shapes and takes place...
>>
>>     Nothing more and nothing less. (If anything sinister about the
>>     proposed meeting surfaces at any later time we can as publicly
>>     withdraw our support, saying this is  not at all what we
>>     bargained for)
>>
>>     So either people here agree to the above, and we can write a
>>     statement, or they dont... This is the time to do the statement,
>>     when people are still wondering what kind of initiative it really
>>     is, and with what implications. Throw in our hat - and well, kind
>>     of make this thing somewhat trilateral from its current
>>     bi-lateral status (Brazil - ICANN tech community) We may not
>>     succeed, but we must try. .... In a few weeks, the initiative
>>     would already be too solidified in fact, or in people's mind for
>>     civil society support to have this kind of impact....
>>
>>     Parminder
>>
>>
>>     On Friday 11 October 2013 05:56 AM, Ian Peter wrote:
>>>     I agree with Deborah – lets wait till a bit more information
>>>     emerges. We can draft a letter which is more meaningful when we
>>>     have a better idea of the scope, objectives, possible outcomes,
>>>     likely attendees, and possible processes for the conference.
>>>     It’s quite likely more information will emerge in the next week
>>>     or so, therefore I think we should discuss at Bali and before
>>>     then try to find out a little more.
>>>     Ian Peter
>>>     *From:* Deborah Brown <mailto:deborah at accessnow.org>
>>>     *Sent:* Friday, October 11, 2013 10:35 AM
>>>     *To:* Nnenna Nwakanma <mailto:nnenna75 at gmail.com>
>>>     *Cc:* mailto:bestbits at lists.bestbits.net
>>>     *Subject:* Re: [governance] RE: [bestbits] Rousseff & Chehade:
>>>     Brazil will host world event on Internet governance in 2014
>>>     Dear all,
>>>     I see the advantage of engaging early on this, but I'm a bit
>>>     concerned that we are rushing unnecessarily to finalize a letter
>>>     before many of us travel and are otherwise overstretched. I
>>>     wonder if it might make more sense to continue this discussion
>>>     online and take advantage of the in-person meetings in Bali, for
>>>     those of us attending, to develop a CS agenda. Also, as others
>>>     have pointed out, we know so little about the initiative at this
>>>     point.
>>>     The draft text (available here:
>>>     http://igcaucus.org:9001/p/Brazil2014) does not seem to capture
>>>     the cautious optimism that a number of people have expressed. I
>>>     also have concerns about providing our "strongest endorsement"
>>>     of the Marco Civil process, when that process is not yet
>>>     complete. Of course the text of the letter could change
>>>     dramatically in just a few hours ;)
>>>     I find Nnenna's approach to be sound, but it does imply a follow
>>>     on communication with more concrete proposals. I wonder if it
>>>     might be more effective to streamline our communication to the
>>>     Brazilian president and head of ICANN.
>>>     To sum up, I see clear advantages to both "striking while the
>>>     iron is hot" and a more cautious approach. But given the factors
>>>     I mentioned above, I would support taking some extra time if we
>>>     need it. In any case, I'm looking forward to hearing others'
>>>     ideas and continuing the discussion around this important
>>>     development.
>>>     Best regards,
>>>     Deborah
>>>
>>>
>>>     On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 3:41 PM, Nnenna Nwakanma
>>>     <nnenna75 at gmail.com <mailto:nnenna75 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>         Dear all
>>>
>>>          1. I do believe that if any support there is, from the
>>>             civil society, it is support for an IDEA that "appears"
>>>             more open and inclusive that the current IGF
>>>          2. So I am cautious about writing a letter that may be in
>>>             any way understood as  "Civil Society lauds Dilma and
>>>             ICANN's push".
>>>          3. A short letter informing that global Civil Society that
>>>             are working on, concerned about and/or interested in IG
>>>             and Internet issues  intend to play key roles in the
>>>             summit.
>>>          4. I believe we should communicate key values we plan to
>>>             pursue in the summit
>>>          5. Underline the central idea of multistakeholder
>>>             participation
>>>          6. Say that we are beginnning discussions about the diverse
>>>             roles that CS can play and that some time in Bali will
>>>             be dedicated to the issue during the BB meeting in Bali.
>>>
>>>         If we recall, workshop 127 in Bali will be discussing the MS
>>>         Selection processes, and I do hope, personally that we can
>>>         use that opportunity to sharpen the focus.  A reminder of
>>>         the WS is on
>>>         http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/wks2013/workshop_2013_status_list_view.php?xpsltipq_je=127
>>>
>>>         I am traveling in unconnected rural areas but will be back
>>>         online and I'm happy to contribute language if any text
>>>         begins to surface.  In case I do not, here are my ideas:
>>>
>>>          1. Say what exactly it is the global CS is supporting,
>>>             which is the idea, and not the institutions
>>>          2. Make a clear statement on our willingness to engage
>>>          3. Recall that our engagement is based on the
>>>             Multistakeholder principle
>>>          4. Inform that discussions have started and are ongoing
>>>          5. Say we will be coming up with ore concrete engagement
>>>             proposals
>>>          6. Requesto have fundamental info, if available, to help us
>>>             scope the idea itself.
>>>
>>>         Best
>>>
>>>         Nnenna
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>         On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 7:01 PM, Joana Varon
>>>         <joana at varonferraz.com <mailto:joana at varonferraz.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>             Dear people,
>>>
>>>             For the level of information I have (which is basically:
>>>             Brazil and ICANN have proposed to host a Summit on
>>>             Internet after April - coincidentally or right after the
>>>             meeting on Sharm el Sheik and before the presidential
>>>             elections period), I don't feel comfortable about
>>>             writing a letter congratulating for something I dont
>>>             really know what it is.
>>>
>>>             But I do truly support Anja's suggestion to start
>>>             working on our agenda online and, with a potential to be
>>>             much richer, during our several meetings in Bali. (what
>>>             do we want from all this besides participating in the
>>>             Summit??)
>>>
>>>             In the meanwhile, I rather take breath to understand and
>>>             discuss this with the Brazilian government and Brazilian
>>>             colleagues from civil society or other sectors. And see
>>>             what is the final draft of Marco Civil that the
>>>             government will bring to our table very soon (if it
>>>             truly endorses all the principles she has mentioned at
>>>             the UNGA).
>>>
>>>             I'm sorry if it's a bit of a skeptic or over cautious
>>>             position, but I really need more inputs to see the big
>>>             picture.
>>>             All the best
>>>
>>>             joana
>>>
>>>
>>>             On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 2:59 PM, michael gurstein
>>>             <gurstein at gmail.com <mailto:gurstein at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>                 +1
>>>
>>>                 M
>>>
>>>                 -----Original Message-----
>>>                 From: bestbits-request at lists.bestbits.net
>>>                 <mailto:bestbits-request at lists.bestbits.net>
>>>                 [mailto:bestbits-request at lists.bestbits.net
>>>                 <mailto:bestbits-request at lists.bestbits.net>] On
>>>                 Behalf Of Carlos A. Afonso
>>>                 Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2013 10:12 AM
>>>                 To: McTim
>>>                 Cc: governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>>                 <mailto:governance at lists.igcaucus.org>; michael
>>>                 gurstein; Lee W McKnight; Rafik
>>>                 Dammak; Joana Varon; &lt,bestbits at lists.bestbits.net
>>>                 <mailto:bestbits at lists.bestbits.net>&gt,; NCSG List
>>>                 Subject: Re: [governance] RE: [bestbits] Rousseff &
>>>                 Chehade: Brazil will
>>>                 host world event on Internet governance in 2014
>>>
>>>                 Dear compa McT,
>>>
>>>                 You being a rigorous techie, maybe you will not
>>>                 change your logical view...
>>>                 :) And I understand there is a lot of people in all
>>>                 sectors who feel
>>>                 disturbed by the emerging presence of Brazil and its
>>>                 concrete proposals to
>>>                 finally move on.
>>>
>>>                 At the very beginning Fadi describes the motivation
>>>                 -- Rousseff's statement
>>>                 at the UN, her clear adherence to the basic
>>>                 principles most of civil society
>>>                 defends (which she has repeated several times in her
>>>                 radio program and her
>>>                 twitter @dilmabr), and her proposal to build a
>>>                 planetary framework of
>>>                 rights. This did not come out of the blue, from a
>>>                 meeting of IP addressers
>>>                 in a wonderful city called Montevideo. Do you think
>>>                 Fadi just dropped by the
>>>                 presidential door in Brasilia, knocked and entered
>>>                 to sell that proposal? :)
>>>
>>>                 Anyway, it is relevant to understand that this is
>>>                 not a proposal for yet
>>>                 another Icann meeting, or a reedition of the UN
>>>                 chatting space called IGF,
>>>                 as both Dilma and Fadi made it very clear. It is a
>>>                 major achievement that
>>>                 that motivation brought Icann to colead this effort
>>>                 jointly with BR.
>>>
>>>                 All the more so because, as you know, there are
>>>                 strong sectors within the
>>>                 government who would love to bring the root-zone to
>>>                 the purview of the ITU,
>>>                 who hate Icann, who do not like the
>>>                 pluriparticipative model of governance
>>>                 we defend, and who are basically associated with the
>>>                 transnational telecom
>>>                 oligopoly which controls the main networks in BR.
>>>                 Dilma is courageously up against a huge wall here,
>>>                 to defend those
>>>                 principles, and receiving Fadi and emerging from the
>>>                 meeting with thar
>>>                 proposal was a major political milestone for her in
>>>                 those internal disputes
>>>                 as well.
>>>
>>>                 [] fraterno
>>>
>>>                 --c.a.
>>>
>>>                 On 10/10/2013 10:14 AM, McTim wrote:
>>>                 > At 55 seconds in, Fadi says:
>>>                 > "Her Excellency President Rousseff has accepted
>>>                 our invitation that we
>>>                 > hold next year a Global Summit"
>>>                 >
>>>                 > Seem fairly clear to me.
>>>                 >
>>>                 > On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 9:10 AM, Carlos A. Afonso
>>>                 <ca at cafonso.ca <mailto:ca at cafonso.ca>> wrote:
>>>                 >> McT, maybe you should watch the video a few times
>>>                 more... :)
>>>                 >>
>>>                 >> --c.a.
>>>                 >>
>>>                 >> On 10/10/2013 09:57 AM, McTim wrote:
>>>                 >>> On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 11:50 PM, michael
>>>                 gurstein <gurstein at gmail.com
>>>                 <mailto:gurstein at gmail.com>>
>>>                 wrote:
>>>                 >>>> Why so pessimistic and cynical everyone.. I may
>>>                 be wrong but this
>>>                 >>>> isn't just about ICANN, although hats off to
>>>                 Fadi for getting this
>>>                 >>>> going and putting that into play.
>>>                 >>>
>>>                 >>>
>>>                 >>> I'm not pessimistic or cynical.
>>>                 >>>
>>>                 >>>>
>>>                 >>>>
>>>                 >>>>
>>>                 >>>> But I would be extremely surprised if the Pres.
>>>                 of Brazil is going
>>>                 >>>> to invite the world to Rio in April next year
>>>                 to discuss names and
>>>                 >>>> numbers. Rather my reading is that she is
>>>                 by-passing the quite
>>>                 >>>> evident log-jam at the ITU, the frivolities of
>>>                 the IGF, the now
>>>                 >>>> discredited "Internet Freedom" crusade and the
>>>                 status quo which it
>>>                 >>>> was intended to cast into concrete errr. (non)
>>>                 rules and regs.
>>>                 >>>
>>>                 >>>
>>>                 >>>
>>>                 >>> It appears to me, after watching the video again
>>>                 several times that
>>>                 >>> it is ICANN (and I assume the rest of the
>>>                 Montevideoans) that are
>>>                 >>> spearheading this.  In other words the idea of
>>>                 the Summit comes from
>>>                 >>> the T&A folks, not Brasilia.
>>>                 >>>
>>>                 >>>
>>>                 >
>>>                 >
>>>                 >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>             -- 
>>>             -- 
>>>
>>>             Joana Varon Ferraz
>>>             @joana_varon
>>>             PGP 0x016B8E73
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>     -- 
>>>     Deborah Brown
>>>     Senior Policy Analyst
>>>     Access | accessnow.org <http://accessnow.org>
>>>     rightscon.org <http://rightscon.org>
>>>
>>>     @deblebrown
>>>     PGP 0x5EB4727D
>>
>
>

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/bestbits/attachments/20131011/cb8ee782/attachment.htm>


More information about the Bestbits mailing list